Editor's Note: This article comes fromEditor's Note: This article comes fromZinc Finance

(ID: xincaijing), text: Chen Haining and Yi Boling, editor: Cui Hengyu, reproduced by Odaily with authorization.

Justin Sun stood on the stage of deja vu.

On June 4, Justin Sun, the founder of TRON, announced that he won the Warren Buffett 20th Anniversary Charity Luncheon with a record high of $4,567,888.

As soon as the news came out, global attention focused on the post-90s.

On September 4, 2017, the People's Bank of China and other seven ministries and commissions jointly issued the "Announcement on Preventing Financing Risks of Token Issuance", requiring domestic 1C0 projects and digital currency exchanges to be banned and closed (hereinafter referred to as 94).

image description

Announcement on Preventing Financing Risks of Token Issuance

Since then, Sun Yuchen was once rumored to "run away". In March 2018, Sun Yuchen, who returned to China to participate in the first student thesis defense of Hupan University, entrusted someone to find Zinc Finance and Economics, hoping to use the media to tell the outside world: I did not run away, and defended several major "misunderstandings" about him by the outside world.

On the evening of March 26, 2018, at the student gathering of Hupan University, Pan Yuefei, the founder of Zinc Finance, had a conversation with Sun Yuchen for more than 3 hours. He was in a state of excitement almost the whole time, and suddenly laughed, and his voice became sharper from time to time due to excitement. The volume is high. When speaking, he waved his hands unconsciously.

Therefore, Zinc Finance decided to present the transcript of the conversation with Justin Sun in its original form, trying to restore Justin Sun as a person. This may be the longest conversation between Justin Sun and the media.

He talked about transaction volume, DAO (through the blockchain smart contract, run the organization's rules and procedures, and realize distributed self-governance), talked about 94, and talked about gossip and misunderstandings.

image description

Justin Sun’s wave field TRON

It is worth noting that Justin Sun once told Zinc Finance that the lock-up period of the Tron Foundation will end on January 1, 2020, which may have something to do with Justin Sun’s belief that Buffett’s lunch is inevitable.

secondary title

It took 6 years and I found out that I can only be a duck among chickensSince when did you start contacting the currency circle?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

I came into contact with Bitcoin in 2012 and joined Ripple in 2013. In 2014, I took more than 2 million US dollars invested by IDG, and I became Ripple when I returned to China. In fact, we just want to build Ethereum in China. At that time, Ethereum had not yet been born.

I summed up the failure of this paragraph at that time. One of the important reasons is that at that time, when I entered the lakeside (university), I felt like a duck entering a flock of chickens.

Because other successful entrepreneurs, such as Ma Yun, Chen Ou, including Chen Weixing, they all raised A round, B round, and C round, completed the complete logic, and then IPO. The rules of the business world are the same set.

When VCs want to invest money in you, they will ask you how much you earn, how much profit you have, and how many users you have. Just like a chicken (same), the nails are pointy, and the mouth is also pointy.

When I did it in 2014, the VC's first reaction was, "Are you a liar? What are you talking about? What is that?"

And the funniest thing is that because you are a duck, after you mixed with the chickens, you also have low self-esteem.

Why are my webs open? They are all pointed. Why am I open? Do I have to shave the webs off? Why is my mouth flat, other chickens have a sharp point to catch rice, how can a wide mouth catch rice?

At that time, I would wonder if I was doing something wrong. All successful entrepreneurs are like this, am I wrong? At that time, for example, there were some ducks, people like Vitalik, who built Ethereum in 2015, and we felt contemptuous of them when they did ICO in 2015. At that time, we thought how could you cut leeks?

It's really ridiculous, because we thought Vitalik just cut leeks? We are serious and professional investors. Good VC investment like IDG, invested by mainstream funds, we are not cutting leeks, isn’t Bitcoin just cutting leeks?So what is the reason why Ripple can’t do it?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

The reason for the failure is very simple, because at that time Vitalik chose to make a duck, and he made a duck without complaint or regret.

But I wanted to do chicken at the time. The operation standard of DAO, VC does not meet it, and because you are a duck, no matter what you do, you can’t meet the standard of a chicken, your mouth will be flat, which is very uncomfortable.

Chickens can't do it, they are not suitable for it, and they don't like to do it. I don't care if this is good or bad, and I don't care what others think of it. I have spent six years in pain and hesitation. This is also determined by the blockchain industry. The blockchain industry is such a complete set. It is different from VC.

secondary title

I am not the currency circle Jia YuetingKnown as "Jia Yueting in the currency circle", what do you think?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

We are also correct one by one. Jia Yueting will not be able to return to the country. I am here for an interview, and entry and exit are free. The first point is inconsistent, and the second point is that Jia Yueting really owes people money. Tell me about China, we owe anyone money, even a penny, nothing at all.

image description

Jia Yueting's picture comes from the Internet

Taking a step back, China has of course cleared itself long ago. Even for our investors in Tron, our current price is 30 times higher than our 1C0 issue price, and everyone has made a profit. At least if you invested 10,000 yuan, you now have 300,000 yuan, and if you invest 1 million yuan, you will only get 30 million yuan. Which one is not profitable.

So we made a decision at that time. I was going to go abroad on September 2, and 94 happened. People misunderstood that we would never come back.

secondary title

Neither Ethereum nor EOS can beat usAfter the 94 ban, it was almost a narrow escape. Why did you persist?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

Ordinary people may do it because of 1C0, because at that time after 1994, 97% of the same period as me died, and they all died. 100% of the 1C0 platform is closed, and 100% of the exchange is closed. 97% of such projects died, and Bitcoin fell by 40% that year.

As far as our family continues to work overseas, and I think I believe it is a miracle that we are overseas. Our test network was launched in four or five days, and then we launched the main network on May 31.

We are a little earlier than EOS, and we deliberately choose a time point that is one day earlier than EOS. I think 2017 is a key test year for Bitcoin. The reason why Bitcoin has risen so much is that in 2017, he completely resolved the dispute and brought the whole community into a new stage, experiencing the test of blood and fire.

For Ethereum, I think it goes without saying that this is an absolute impact, but it’s just a question of how big the impact is, so I think it is absolutely short for Ethereum in the short term. Of course, Ethereum has also fallen a lot, from 1000 to 500, (March 2018 ) plummeted some time ago, why?

It's very simple, we fight overseas, and EOS fights in China and South Korea. Ethereum does have too many problems, and the ship is too big to turn around, so I think that’s it, I don’t regard EOS as an opponent.Where is your opponent?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

I am Liu Bang, EOS is Xiang Yu, and Ethereum is Qin Dynasty. I will kill him first and then divide the world. So from this perspective, we are not opponents. I don't have to think that I and EOS are rivals.

I think we can talk about it systematically.

The first point is that our TPS is much higher than that of Ethereum, which is 60 times.

Second, we have another one that is creative. We don’t need to pay Gas for transfers, and all transfers are free. Account creation is also free and 60 times faster than Ethereum.

And you also know that Ethereum does not have any mobile support at all, and there are very few mobile terminals, all of which are all PC. In the future, we will invest hundreds of millions of dollars in the entire mobile ecosystem to build it, all of which are mobile.

We are equivalent to Ethereum, he is in the open, we are in the dark, because what we improve is definitely the most painful point for its users, and we solve it all.

We don’t even look down on EOS, because our transaction volume is second only to Bitcoin and Ethereum, and occasionally compared with Litecoin, we rank fourth or even third in the world.

Or Ethereum tried to fight, but because the ship was in trouble and turned around, it didn't fight for various reasons. For example, as mentioned above, Ethereum also wants to improve its TPS by converting PoS to PoW. It is not that it does not know that it is 60 seconds slower, but it cannot be changed, because once it is changed, the miners will quarrel.

secondary title

Nine "misunderstandings" about Justin Sun

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

It was hilarious and there were so many misunderstandings. The first biggest misunderstanding is that we thought we ran away, and the second is that we didn’t pull the offer.

I was in South Korea on the day of 94. Many people said that we had to run away after 94. In fact, we left the country on September 2. Although it was a few days away, when I left the country on September 2, I didn’t know that there would be 94. To go to South Korea, I need to apply for a visa, which means that I made a decision in August to go to South Korea in September.

I can show you my passport, what month and date I left. So this is the truth, we are not actually promoting overseas, and it is not because we are 94 that we go out.

That's what happened, and of course it caused a certain level of embarrassment, right? What circle of friends, the news about TRON in China is all rumors. I have accepted (interview) for the first time today.

2. Pull the plateHow did the figure of 2 billion cash out come from? Why are you so eloquent?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

The logic is very simple. I took a look just now, and the transaction volume is nearly 400 million U.S. dollars. How can there be 400 million U.S. dollars? You can’t afford it, and it’s impossible for your partners to let you pull it. We have been listed on the five best exchanges in the world. Their integrity is very high. I’m not kidding. Low.

It was easier in the front, but after nearly nine months of hard work, we started in the second half of last year, and it was not until March this year that it was launched. This delay has caught up with the listing, and we still dare to use it, and we have to The five companies have all colluded. If I want to be able to do this, I still want to pull the deal? I went straight to the exchange.

I didn't cash out, so where did I get 2 billion. It was written by an official account called Laojin Financial Notes in China. It is estimated that Laojin thinks that 20 is not bad and 30 is too much. We issued a court summons and asked him to delete it, and he himself knew it was a rumor.

Let everyone believe that if there is not so much cash out, it is locked. All the funds of the foundation are locked until January 1, 2020, and we are relatively firm in locking. We hope that the foundation will have a strong impact on the ecology in the long run. In terms of control, we have a different mentality than those who spread rumors. They don’t believe that Tron is very good, and the trading volume of EOS is so far behind ours. Why do we run away? Why cash out?

It is equivalent to a thing that I think is worth 20, but you think it is only worth 50 cents, and then spread rumors that I sold it for two yuan. It is very funny in China. On the one hand, they say that I cut domestic leeks, and on the other hand, they say that I am a national hero, that the British sold us opium in the 19th century, and Sun Yuchen sold Tron to the Eight-Power Allied Forces in the 21st century.

Many people misunderstand that we are a domestic project, and many people outside the circle think that what I cut is domestic leeks, like Laojin Financial Notes, he is not in the currency circle.The Chinese market has a special fondness for foreign projects, thinking that foreigners will definitely not solicit offers. As long as it is a project with Chinese participation, it will definitely make an offer.

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

I also talked with a Chinese project founder before. We are all returnees, so we are more qualified to answer this question. We may be the first project in China that has been so successful overseas. I also know the psychology of foreigners. I I dare not say that I am a banana person (ABC), but at least I am half of it, because I have been studying in the United States for a long time, and I also worked at Ripple at the beginning. Now the main working language is English, and I only use Chinese when I came back recently.

I think it is true that Chinese people in the currency circle still have serious thoughts of worshiping foreigners and fawning on foreign countries. What is low-key trading volume is low-key, and high trading volume is due to hype, and there is no solution. To give a simple example, for example, if BM changes three projects in a row, if the Chinese are asked to do this, they will definitely be said to "cut leeks, issue three projects in a row, cut three rounds in a row, have no conscience, and do not persist in doing projects."

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

The reason why EOS is higher than us is very simple, because there are more exchanges on EOS than us, and it is because it was done earlier, he did it in July, and we did it in September, two months earlier in the currency circle. It's a huge first-mover advantage.

4. HypeAbout your experience, including saying that you are very good at hype, even digging out your college experience, and the internship at Southern Weekend, you have written in detail.

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

image description

The picture comes from the Internet

The picture comes from the Internet

I'm particularly good at this, it's actually my personality. When I was in the second grade of high school, I could only get three grades, and my grades were very poor, and I was not popular at all. It took me a year to get from more than 300 points to 650 points, and I was admitted to Peking University.

Including working on projects, you can see how badly we fell in September. I fully recovered in three months. I am very good at finding out that something is bad, why it is bad, how to solve it, and then suddenly become very good. But others often don't believe it, because it's too miraculous, and they feel that something abnormal must be caused by a demon.

Later, he came to interview me on GQ, and of course I provided him with a lot of material unguarded. Many of the materials are true, but He Yu's interpretation of these materials has completely adopted negative logic.

For example, I have been mainly vegetarian since I was about 24 years old. If it is interpreted positively, it can even be said that Sun Yuchen's moral level has improved.

In fact, the reason why I am a vegetarian is that I studied abroad in the United States, and Americans eat healthy foods such as salads, quinoa, and avocados. I'm not picky, I don't have to eat Chinese food, I can eat anything from foreigners, and I still maintain this eating habit after returning to Beijing from the United States.

He Yu looked at it and said that Sun Yuchen was pursuing utilitarianism, and his figure became better, so he switched to eating salad. My first reaction was "this is fine".

The original inspirational story of my counterattack to Peking University was written as a deliberate effort to counterattack. I was speechless, and felt very strange. From my own point of view, I think the only explanation is that it is because of jealousy.

Jealousy is also normal. The school we all went to was ordinary people without any background. From a secular point of view, I may be much more successful than him, and he really can't accept it for a while. It is also possible that he really did not understand the blockchain. At that time, 2015 was too early. I think the interview was a very in-depth interview, at least three months.

He Yu should be quite familiar to us, but why do I say that he is playing the piano with a cow? Because after the report came out, with He Yu’s IQ, he didn’t know what we were doing at all, basically didn’t mention business, and only wrote one sentence, as far as we know, Sun Yuchen’s business seems to be doing nothing.

5: About making chicken and duckHow to interpret all in as a duck?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

(Very early) I have been all in to make ducks, but it was only to make repeated compromises between ducks and chickens. Later, in 2015, Fabibao was launched. It is smart contracts to issue coins to everyone. We did it two years earlier than Ethereum. Three years is equivalent to China inventing electricity in the 9th century and Edison in the 17th century.

At that time, everyone really didn’t understand it. We didn’t use the form of DAO. We used the company. Even if other people like it, they can’t participate. It’s still in the middle of the chicken and the duck.

Many people think that we switched to blockchain in 2017, but I started working on Bitcoin in 2012 and continued to do it in 2013, but the old people in the industry did not think so. This is of course the reason for information asymmetry. Misunderstandings can also be divided into insiders and outsiders.

The article "The Zhuangjia Du Jun" wrote Li Lin (the founder of Huobi.com) like Du Jun, but in Huobi, Du Jun is far from Li Lin. Li Lin is the boss and Du Jun is a part-time worker. Boy, Li Lin said it definitely counts.

6. Regarding complianceThere are bound to be contradictions in China whether to study Tao Te Ching or science. How do you face the question of compliance?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

When the new paradigm is transferred, because the predecessors are too ignorant and have not seen new things, they can only explain it with the original logic, but those who understand the new paradigm find it very simple. In fact, in the blockchain circle, I feel that all I know are ordinary people, and no one is deliberate. They are all quite normal and vulnerable.

Many people outside the circle think that we are breaking the law, but we are not breaking the law. What we did before 1994 was completely compliant. Many people asked me why I was still breaking the law, and I didn’t know how to explain it to him.

7. Rumors about not wanting Ripple coins and not taking group photosSome people say don’t accept Justin Sun’s Ripple coins, don’t take pictures with him, don’t get involved with him, there are rumors on the Internet that there is an old man who dare not take a photo with you, why are you in such a panic?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

That was written by Block Rhythm. I don't know any old seniors, if I had known he would have been deleted, it was all rumors, and it was written with a nose and eyes! I can't help but laugh!

Let me first say that this concept is wrong, and there is no concept of "earning".

We are basically isolated from fiat currencies. Whether it is Bitcoin, Tron, or Ethereum, we think it is an integral part of the future world. We are waiting for you in the future world now. Isn’t the cash out going in the opposite direction? Everyone should panic: Why did I still take fiat currency, and I didn’t buy it when I placed an order today. The moment I bought bitcoins, I was successful in cashing out. Why did you get it wrong?

8. Is Chen Weixing being held on the platform?Some people say that Chen Weixing was forced to stand on the platform?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

image description

The picture comes from the Internet

The picture comes from the Internet

Taking 10,000 steps back, IPFS is open source, which means that everyone can use it. IPFS can indeed say that I copied it, because he was angry, and he attacked me because he was afraid of me. He scolded me, I was actually happy.

secondary title

94 reviewHow did 94 survive? None left?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

None remained. So I feel that the entrepreneurship from 2012 to 2014 was created in vain, and no one in the team remained, including all the partners. Between 2014 and 2015, there were basically only two people left. Today’s team basically joined the company after 2015. From this perspective, the first three years of my 6-year entrepreneurial journey were basically useless.

At that time, it was indeed the most difficult time for the company. The chickens and ducks were not clear, and half of them were hybrids. Even the founder didn’t think clearly. People asked me whether I was a chicken or a duck. Not sure. As long as you give me money, if you say it’s a chicken, it’s a chicken, if you say it’s a duck, it’s a duck. It's really difficult and there is no money. Employees feel that they have no backbone and no hope, and it is normal to leave.

The overall team in 2015 is still good, the turnover rate is very low, and they have basically stayed until now. They switched to the blockchain very quickly. They said, "The boss is awesome. I have only been in this field for three months, but It feels like three years have passed.” I think their learning ability is still good.

94 That paper order scared three people to pee. Three company executives walked away on the spot, but they couldn't stop them.

There was a resigned employee who was very strange. At the beginning, I couldn’t get in touch with the resignation. I asked someone to make up the resignation report. By December, our wave field began to skyrocket. He appeared and said that I was ungrateful, that after working for so long, when I finally left, I basically didn't pay much money. I cried, and I couldn't get in touch with you even if I wanted to contact you at that time.

The projects that have experienced 94 are different from those that have not experienced them. You don’t know how to keep them from leaving. In the words of Block Rhythm, people look at me with panic.

At the time of the 94 Qing retreat, many ordinary people were very restless. They all came to the door with knives and put them on their necks. Give it back to us."

Those who asked for a refund outside were just like the scenes in "The Walking Dead" and "Train to Busan". When the glass door opened, you were trampled to death. Feeling finished.

image description

Stills of Train to Busan

Nearly 40,000 people have participated in our project. To return Ethereum one by one, we must develop a so-called refund program. How do you explain it to them?

I can only supervise the battle in person, remotely. The team's first reaction was that the boss must not come back, it will be even more chaotic. In this way, you can tell the person who asked for the refund that the wallet is in Justin Sun’s, (it’s useless to threaten me), why don’t you talk to me about it.

A lot of people came to the company that day, it was definitely a group event. The common people were extremely panicked and demanded that right here, right now, the money be refunded immediately, without waiting for a second. That kind of fear is unbearable, and it is no longer possible to communicate rationally.

Not only retail investors, but also partner investment banks. I also understand that the 94 Economic Investigators are sitting in front of his house. He is also afraid of going to jail and asks us to call them Ethereum immediately. When he called us, he immediately posted my contact information on the Internet, saying that Justin Sun had run away.Were you scared to pee?

Justin Sun:Justin Sun:

No. I also broadcast a live broadcast that day, and I felt that the bottom line and imagination of people were pierced, and I was hysterical like a neuropathy. In order to appease domestic emotions, a live broadcast was made. At that time, the regulatory authorities also misunderstood the live broadcast. It was quite funny. They said, "Sun Yuchen, don't deceive the public with false rumors, commit crimes against the wind, and still live broadcast."

Three days of hell.

After those three days, everything was fine. To some extent, what everyone asked for in those three days was not a refund of coins, but a space to vent their hysteria and fear.

Starting around the beginning of August, Caixin has published at least one article every two days, hacking 1C0s and blockchains, and the regulators immediately took action. Don’t think that we said today that he didn’t If you don't make a move, you will make a move next week. Everyone's nerves are tense, and it is a joint effort of seven ministries and commissions. Some people stated on the spot that they would never do blockchain again in this life. It's really a visceral fear.

On the first day, I still want to resist, reason, and say that we can bear it. On the third day, I also gave up and lay down on the spot, my ID card was posted on the Internet, and I could only let them make trouble.

In those few days, the product manager went to ask for the technology: if the development is not good within seven days, either you are on the road, or I am on the road.

Even if it didn't waver at that moment, it was still those six words: don't be cowardly, keep doing it. Overseas markets remained strong, unaffected, and rose back in no time.

If you write the history of the currency circle, then from 1994 to December 15, the history of the three months in between is blank and silent. No one does anything, and project parties like me do it overseas.